I was thinking from the brain out. Like, put a couple of implants in there first, see how that goes. This might be good to write about one day, but not super easy.
My favorite character from my favorite show. As Daniel Higgs of the band Lungfish once opined: "The only things a child needs in this world are the Holy Bible, the Wizard of Oz, and the original Star Trek."
Sometimes, they materialized without a transporter, appearing somewhere. As a kid, I suspended disbelief and enjoyed the show. As an adult, I still suspend disbelief when reading sci-fi. Kinda have to. Space travel takes so long, how could aliens even reach us? And don't get me started on parallel universes and time travel.
You definitely have to suspend disbelief any time you're in the Star Trek universe, but I do give them credit for at least explaining how things might work within the laws of physics for some things. Sure, there's no specific mechanism of HOW the warp drive works, exactly, but the idea that it warps space means you don't violate C, and my inner physics nerd really appreciates that concession. Traveling through time, though? That's complete fantasy as far as we can tell, and there are plenty of other ideas like that on the show, too. So much fun!
Definitely not too late! I mean, it's super campy, so you have to expect that, but the way they present big ideas is something else. And, some of the actors are just spectacular in their respective roles.
This may date me, but the first big round of Star Trek novels came out after the show first took off in syndication in the early 1970s, including novelizations of the episodes and original novels by the acclaimed science fiction author James Blish. Blish’s first original novel, “Spock Must Die!”, hits on exactly this subject at the beginning of the novel, and then goes for broke: a transporter accident leaves us with two absolutely identical Spocks. How do you decide which one is THE Spock. (“Next Generation” hit this as well with Thomas Ryker, and “Lower Decks” had a blast with the idea of two Boimlers.)
Think about how incredible this is: this show (and the universe it ultimately spawned) have consistently convinced teenage kids and twenty-somthings to consider deep philosophical conversations from antiquity, plus a whole new slew of conversations centered around social dilemmas and so on. What a brilliant and shining light in the world!
My older brother was a big Star Trek fan (not quite Trekkie nerd level, but close) and with only one TV in the house, I was forced to watch it too—younger sister 🙋🏻♀️ I’m trying to remember if the transporter could ever beam them to other spots on the same or different ship or only to planet surfaces. (Isn’t it great that the writer can take artistic license and “decide” what a future tech can and cannot do?) Anyway, this is me 🤯 this morning, thinking about the show I watched as a little kid. Also, Trouble with Tribbles gave me nightmares.
Yes...you die, the copy of you lives...China Mieville inorporated a brilliant parody of this in his novel "Leviathan" and David Wong used it to crushing effect in the "John Dies at the End."
By the way, a "sawbones" was a ship's surgeon. In the 19th century most ship's surgeons were not medical doctors and the treatments they used were crude, mostly preventing sepsis by amputating injured limbs. Hence the epithet "sawbones" since that's how they spent their time.
At least they didn't treat sailor injuries the way they do horse injuries...😂
So icky! I think the nickname also made its way to the US Civil War battlefields and hospitals. I have an ancestor who did exactly this some 160 years ago, apparently.
If you die and then are recreated, are you also recreated every time you wake up? I love that it gets really complicated and dicey here.
I red a book a long time ago (sorry. can't remember either title or author) that told the story of people who died in the transporter from the point of view of the ghost they left behind. There could, of course, be dozens of ghosts of the same person, causing a bit of shock for the newly created ones. Fun book! Wish I could remember more.
Like the very greatest science fiction, this one considered the implications of an idea without resorting to allegory to discuss more ordinary and known things.
But what if I don't particularly like this Daniel? Maybe the new, transported Daniel is less of a douche. What then? Nah, I've had a good run, New-Daniel, make me proud out there!
Nice! I like the phrase "the transporter of time kills us moment by moment. We are copies of our former selves, and if Captain Kirk died every time he was beamed up, then we die constantly."
I'm still not getting into the transporter, for what it's worth, juuuuust in case dualism is a thing.
...or isn't a thing? Philosophy gets really complicated, really quickly!
The show was so great at getting us to think, and I'm talking about all the iterations of Star Trek I've seen. I loved watching TNG with my folks - one of the few shows we could stand to watch together!
I think we share a hatred of bad allegory, but I really love it when it's done the right way. Just to get a sense, do you think the politics presented in Star Wars is too heavy-handed? How about The Expanse? Is that the sort of thing we're talking about?
Those are both a little complicated. When Star Wars did politics, I tended to roll my eyes. Some of the writing wasn't very good.
The Expanse was a different animal. Much of what they did sort of made sense, in context, though I thought the "poor oppressed belters" bit was over done.
I guess I prefer my science fiction hard and my politics invisible.
Sorry, I didn't mean like contemporary politics- I meant more like the battles from history that have moved things around, that sort of definition of "politics." I could have been much more clear. I think it's very likely that we both like good allegory, but I agree that it's rare to find. I also strongly prefer hard sci-fi!
And, thanks for enriching the conversation a bit here.
Dissolved, captured, reanimated. You could cure everything including age.
I mean, you could cure everyone by killing them and recreating them, right?
You wouldn't need a new body either. Just straight to AI
I'm on board, but can we make it gradual?
Dissolve you slowly? From the feet up?
I was thinking from the brain out. Like, put a couple of implants in there first, see how that goes. This might be good to write about one day, but not super easy.
"Damn it, Jim, I'm a doctor, not an exceptional essay writer!" (But you are, Mr. Smith.)
Thanks, David! You just made my morning.
Few television shows are a great as the original Star Trek.
My favorite character from my favorite show. As Daniel Higgs of the band Lungfish once opined: "The only things a child needs in this world are the Holy Bible, the Wizard of Oz, and the original Star Trek."
Sometimes, they materialized without a transporter, appearing somewhere. As a kid, I suspended disbelief and enjoyed the show. As an adult, I still suspend disbelief when reading sci-fi. Kinda have to. Space travel takes so long, how could aliens even reach us? And don't get me started on parallel universes and time travel.
You definitely have to suspend disbelief any time you're in the Star Trek universe, but I do give them credit for at least explaining how things might work within the laws of physics for some things. Sure, there's no specific mechanism of HOW the warp drive works, exactly, but the idea that it warps space means you don't violate C, and my inner physics nerd really appreciates that concession. Traveling through time, though? That's complete fantasy as far as we can tell, and there are plenty of other ideas like that on the show, too. So much fun!
Not yet. But having just finished with the modern ones, I will watch it. Soon. Thanks for the article.
Sorry, you've never seen the original series? Just wanted to make sure I read that right!
Haha. No, never. When it was aired on TV I couldn’t get it where I lived. But, It’s never too late, I guess?
Definitely not too late! I mean, it's super campy, so you have to expect that, but the way they present big ideas is something else. And, some of the actors are just spectacular in their respective roles.
You mentioned Bones. His character in the modern movies is also one of the best. Leonard Nimoy, William Shatner…it gets no better than this.
I think Karl Urban played him in the reboot movie, which I think is fantastic, for what it's worth.
This may date me, but the first big round of Star Trek novels came out after the show first took off in syndication in the early 1970s, including novelizations of the episodes and original novels by the acclaimed science fiction author James Blish. Blish’s first original novel, “Spock Must Die!”, hits on exactly this subject at the beginning of the novel, and then goes for broke: a transporter accident leaves us with two absolutely identical Spocks. How do you decide which one is THE Spock. (“Next Generation” hit this as well with Thomas Ryker, and “Lower Decks” had a blast with the idea of two Boimlers.)
Think about how incredible this is: this show (and the universe it ultimately spawned) have consistently convinced teenage kids and twenty-somthings to consider deep philosophical conversations from antiquity, plus a whole new slew of conversations centered around social dilemmas and so on. What a brilliant and shining light in the world!
My older brother was a big Star Trek fan (not quite Trekkie nerd level, but close) and with only one TV in the house, I was forced to watch it too—younger sister 🙋🏻♀️ I’m trying to remember if the transporter could ever beam them to other spots on the same or different ship or only to planet surfaces. (Isn’t it great that the writer can take artistic license and “decide” what a future tech can and cannot do?) Anyway, this is me 🤯 this morning, thinking about the show I watched as a little kid. Also, Trouble with Tribbles gave me nightmares.
Oh man, Trouble with Tribbles is such a great cautionary tale!
Yes...you die, the copy of you lives...China Mieville inorporated a brilliant parody of this in his novel "Leviathan" and David Wong used it to crushing effect in the "John Dies at the End."
By the way, a "sawbones" was a ship's surgeon. In the 19th century most ship's surgeons were not medical doctors and the treatments they used were crude, mostly preventing sepsis by amputating injured limbs. Hence the epithet "sawbones" since that's how they spent their time.
At least they didn't treat sailor injuries the way they do horse injuries...😂
So icky! I think the nickname also made its way to the US Civil War battlefields and hospitals. I have an ancestor who did exactly this some 160 years ago, apparently.
If you die and then are recreated, are you also recreated every time you wake up? I love that it gets really complicated and dicey here.
I red a book a long time ago (sorry. can't remember either title or author) that told the story of people who died in the transporter from the point of view of the ghost they left behind. There could, of course, be dozens of ghosts of the same person, causing a bit of shock for the newly created ones. Fun book! Wish I could remember more.
Like the very greatest science fiction, this one considered the implications of an idea without resorting to allegory to discuss more ordinary and known things.
Do you think allegory makes sci-fi worse? I think it tends to make it much better.
But what if I don't particularly like this Daniel? Maybe the new, transported Daniel is less of a douche. What then? Nah, I've had a good run, New-Daniel, make me proud out there!
Unfortunately, New Daniel is just as likely to offend your sensibilities, at least according to Star Trek lore.
It's just what Daniels do.
Dang, dude. Daniels do.
My very first philosophy post was on the subject of Bones and the transporter. :) https://ourdeeperstories.substack.com/p/aburdist-philosophy-is-the-bravest
Nice! I like the phrase "the transporter of time kills us moment by moment. We are copies of our former selves, and if Captain Kirk died every time he was beamed up, then we die constantly."
I'm still not getting into the transporter, for what it's worth, juuuuust in case dualism is a thing.
...or isn't a thing? Philosophy gets really complicated, really quickly!
Wow. Food for thought here for us Trekkies!
The show was so great at getting us to think, and I'm talking about all the iterations of Star Trek I've seen. I loved watching TNG with my folks - one of the few shows we could stand to watch together!
We’re currently watching Voyager - for the 4th time(!), so I get you. It deals with so many social issues that we grapple with in the 21st century.
Janeway!
Bones was perhaps my favourite character in TOS.
He was so human!
I hate allegory. It is almost always done badly, basically hitting you over the head with a hammer instead of telling a story.
I think we share a hatred of bad allegory, but I really love it when it's done the right way. Just to get a sense, do you think the politics presented in Star Wars is too heavy-handed? How about The Expanse? Is that the sort of thing we're talking about?
Those are both a little complicated. When Star Wars did politics, I tended to roll my eyes. Some of the writing wasn't very good.
The Expanse was a different animal. Much of what they did sort of made sense, in context, though I thought the "poor oppressed belters" bit was over done.
I guess I prefer my science fiction hard and my politics invisible.
Sorry, I didn't mean like contemporary politics- I meant more like the battles from history that have moved things around, that sort of definition of "politics." I could have been much more clear. I think it's very likely that we both like good allegory, but I agree that it's rare to find. I also strongly prefer hard sci-fi!
And, thanks for enriching the conversation a bit here.
It's a fun philosophical question to explore.