When the Declaration was written, the American colonies had a relatively small population, so it was fairly easy to achieve consensus among the governed. Currently, the nation has nearly 500 million people and has split into two camps that constantly fight and rarely agree on anything, as well as having many people whose ingrained apathy leads them not to vote at all. So how can either side of the government truly say they govern with the people's full consent?
No place on the planet governs with the people's full consent, at least as far as I can tell. To me, it's all a question of where on that spectrum we want to land.
We are in desperate need of electoral reform. The first-past-the-post system, spread by the British Empire, is a problem in the US, UK, Canada and elsewhere. To better reflect the popular vote, some form of proportional represenation is required or at least should be injected into the system.
The same thing exists in Canada, where I live. Government constantly shifts between the three main parties that represent leftist (NDP), centrist (Liberal) and right-wing (Conservative) views at the federal and provincial level. We have the same political biases and concerns that Americans do, but we have shown that we are willing to accept models of political ideology Americans won't tolerate.
Question, do they show commercials of politicians talking about what they dislike about each other? Isn't that teaching hate in a way? Isn't the crime rate there down compared to the crime rate here in the U.S.A.? Just curious...
Lower population helped, but so did the fact that the people writing the declaration were a powerful minority with a shared set of concerns. "We the people" meant while male landowners, which is already redundant since only white males could own land.
Very much so. It was notable in terms of how far things moved forward, but it was equally notable how much further there still was to go (and there's still plenty to be done, IMO).
I think the US is "special" largely due to influence. Those rich white dudes had a ton of power, even though they were rebelling against the largest empire in human history! I think the likes of good writers like Jefferson, able to articulate views in a way that was more easily digestible than the prose of the day, helped a ton.
But yeah, the American revolution was a step on a long ladder upwards toward consent of the governed, a spectrum we are very much on today.
Democracy Shmemocracy! I pledge allegiance to our Intergalactic Overlord Xebjis. It is a kind and benevolent dictator who will usher in an era of endless prosperity, and all it wants in return is a perpetual supply of human flesh to consume. All hail Emperor Xebjis.
The Magna Carta was inspired by the Charter of Liberties issued by John's great grandfather Henry at the start of his reign in 1100. This document was issued to gain support of the English nobility for his claim to the English throne over that of his elder brother Robert. Robert did launch a second Norman invasion, which failed for lack of support from the English nobility partly because of the Charter.
The Charter was then ignored by Henry and his successors until John, when Archbishop Stephen Langton, who was quarreling with the king, reminded the English nobles of the Charter, which gathered their men to force John to sign an undated version, the Magna Charter. This one had teeth because when John immediately reneged, civil war broke out.
I love how the story of human rights involves a lot of very rich and powerful people arguing about their share of the pie being even bigger. It's incredible how much something like that can morph over centuries.
Interesting post there Andrew. I think that there should NOT be ONE way of doing things. If people learned anything, it should be that there are more ways than one to achieve goals. If you take the crime rate in areas where government is handled differently, you'll see that it is different than here in the U.S.A. Why? Maybe because they don't constantly bash one another on TV. to get the vote they want, they give everyone the right to save up, etc. to pay for their freedom and their people do not have to worry about medical treatment or if they will be left to die without it. That may cause frustration in people and may make living harder. Just an idea. Maybe government in many places should be handled differently because THAT would lower crime rates and save parents from losing their kids, etc. There's also the fact that I absolutely think people who can handle it, etc. or want to SHOULD have the right to a voice. People SHOULD have the right to speak up for what they believe! I DO believe that! I also believe 100% that in some areas the King does not hold Political power over the people anymore. Times have changed. The past is the past and today is today. People need to realise that and let go of hate past events created. Some may realise that but trust me not everyone does! Those today are not to blame for the mistakes of the past. King Charles lll as well many in the Royal Family inspire others and often stand to create awareness that helps the people today. This American thinks that is HUGELY commendable.. I'm not saying that because King Charles lll, and the Royal Family are my distant relatives but because it is 100% true. Besides, it's not like I actually know them face to face or ever will have the pleasure of doing so. The FACT is alot of Americans know very little about the Royal Family and only judge what they don't understand. The past is in fact the past. America was made to move on; not to live in the past. I don't know about others in power nor am I going to pretend to but I do know that the Royal Family is completely different from the way they were long ago. The King cannot say I don't like what someone is saying, etc. so OFF WITH THEIR HEAD! The President of the U.S.A. holds more power over the people than the King does. We ran to freedom; only to create a new cage. One where people are judged if they are viewed as different in anyway. Funny...those who held power over us in the past viewed things exactly the same way. Only today it's not someone saying OFF WITH YOUR HEAD, it's people with the skills, etc. attacking those they disagree with technically or in a brainwashing way that will not be seen or noticed by others in power. It's a sly and rather sick form of manipulation and control. It's also PERFECT if the person you disagree with has any sort of health condition because you can use that to make others assume that anything they speak for is in their head. That my friend is not freedom to me; nor it is what our ancestors came here for. I say Our because I believe that everyone is connected and ancestry is showing that to be true. If people want to find the right way of living it should be found by putting ALL heads together. It shouldn't be found in ONE way because they ARE doing things right to a degree in many areas. If you only wish to find ONE way, you will ALWAYS, ALWAYS fail. You may learn from that failure and really everything is meant to be but I bet anyone who chooses one way and cannot learn from others will fail. Long ago people chose ONE King, etc. ONE way. The Kings of the past were my ancestors and I have to live with that but we can learn from that experience. We can continue to change...we can move forward and we have started to people have the right to vote. Let's continue to move forward! We should all learn from eachother. I believe that's why each of us are here. The question is can Democrats,Republicans, American, British, etc. work together because REALLY we are ALL people. We may disagree on some things but that certainly doesn't mean that we can't learn from one another. Titles aside, we are all a part of eachother and we ALL matter! We should unite as one not fight against one way. We should OPEN our eyes and see the bigger picture to help others. To make a better life for the children of the world. If we can do that, there is more hope for future generations. The question is are we ready for that? I tend to question if some ONLY want the attention that comes from being on TV. and not power to help the PEOPLE. That's most likely why the Royals of the past had to be talked into putting things on TV in the first place. It shouldn't be about being on TV. It should be about helping others. You CAN help more on TV. but one event that comes to mind from the past is Salem. The girls in the Salem Witch trials cried Witch and only due to being caught up in drama did people fall for it. They actually believed lies and hanged people due to it. The way that I see it, the people who believed the lies those girls made were responsible for the deaths of many who were charged. Just as those who believe the lies some Presidents make up today are responsible for the way society treats others due to it. I saw that repeat itself when people followed Trumps words and came to the White House to kill both Democrats and Republicans. I'm sorry dude but that was not in the U.K. People did not harm each-other waving around guns in the U.K. In my eyes...we can learn from eachother because it's a matter of being able to handle that much attention. To my knowledge they simply do not give the option to gain negative attention like that in the U.K. and that is WISE! I simply don't believe that everyone can handle that much attention. Some use it the wrong way, just as some did years ago by ordering people around, etc. I think that we should give power to the people again and that would be by working together. We can only do that by putting aside our pride to see what would be best for the people. We can't do that by teaching everyone to hate those who are different by sending out political ads that teach people to attack whatever may be going wrong in a persons life. That is just like hanging others; only just doing so with emotional torture. That only makes SOME kill themselves to end it. The rest it only tortures and you'd think that technical issues can't torture but I ask you just how many things are online today? That would include getting in contact with Doctors, making appointments, etc. Along with all the things like voting and bank information. Just how many of those things have to do with technology today? Mess with that and you can prevent someone from doing anything those things do. If you're REALLY smart, you'll only mess with technology sometimes. That way some will assume that it's all in your head. That can even make someone question their own sanity! If they do that, they will be less of a threat and maybe give up on being a voice. Still, that is what many ran from years ago. Torture, etc. is simply done in a different way today. If they are handling things differently in other areas, the U.S.A. should look at them and try to learn from them. Just as they should learn from allowing people to have a voice. We should each learn from EACHOTHER! We can only TRULY find the correct answer that way. AS ONE! Remember what was written for America was infact written years ago and during a time when people did not know all of the wonderful things they do today. Some of it may be right but some of it may be wrong and based on what they knew at that time in history. More should be added to help TODAY and not YEARS ago. Years ago is over and done. Today we should learn from all and live as one.
My big takeaway from this is: always have a constitution. Interestingly enough, Israel operates more or less as a democracy, and they don't have a constitution!
Well said. We had a big protest up here in Ottawa a couple of years ago, calling vaguely for 'no more government mandates'. Meaning anything that prevented them from doing what they wanted. Without any concerns for others and the needs of society. No concept on how this whole being governed thing worked.
When the Declaration was written, the American colonies had a relatively small population, so it was fairly easy to achieve consensus among the governed. Currently, the nation has nearly 500 million people and has split into two camps that constantly fight and rarely agree on anything, as well as having many people whose ingrained apathy leads them not to vote at all. So how can either side of the government truly say they govern with the people's full consent?
No place on the planet governs with the people's full consent, at least as far as I can tell. To me, it's all a question of where on that spectrum we want to land.
We are in desperate need of electoral reform. The first-past-the-post system, spread by the British Empire, is a problem in the US, UK, Canada and elsewhere. To better reflect the popular vote, some form of proportional represenation is required or at least should be injected into the system.
No argument here. The electoral college is a relic and a mess.
The same thing exists in Canada, where I live. Government constantly shifts between the three main parties that represent leftist (NDP), centrist (Liberal) and right-wing (Conservative) views at the federal and provincial level. We have the same political biases and concerns that Americans do, but we have shown that we are willing to accept models of political ideology Americans won't tolerate.
Question, do they show commercials of politicians talking about what they dislike about each other? Isn't that teaching hate in a way? Isn't the crime rate there down compared to the crime rate here in the U.S.A.? Just curious...
Lower population helped, but so did the fact that the people writing the declaration were a powerful minority with a shared set of concerns. "We the people" meant while male landowners, which is already redundant since only white males could own land.
Very much so. It was notable in terms of how far things moved forward, but it was equally notable how much further there still was to go (and there's still plenty to be done, IMO).
...which was also true in Canada during the colonial days. There was a governing council in Quebec that was fittingly known as the Chateau Clique.
Of course. It's not that the U.S. is unique. It's just not a special as some people want to believe.
I think the US is "special" largely due to influence. Those rich white dudes had a ton of power, even though they were rebelling against the largest empire in human history! I think the likes of good writers like Jefferson, able to articulate views in a way that was more easily digestible than the prose of the day, helped a ton.
But yeah, the American revolution was a step on a long ladder upwards toward consent of the governed, a spectrum we are very much on today.
Democracy Shmemocracy! I pledge allegiance to our Intergalactic Overlord Xebjis. It is a kind and benevolent dictator who will usher in an era of endless prosperity, and all it wants in return is a perpetual supply of human flesh to consume. All hail Emperor Xebjis.
I've been waiting for an easier option!
Surrender (your family) to Lord Xebjis and you shall know peace (in theory). Long live Xebjis (but not you).
The Magna Carta was inspired by the Charter of Liberties issued by John's great grandfather Henry at the start of his reign in 1100. This document was issued to gain support of the English nobility for his claim to the English throne over that of his elder brother Robert. Robert did launch a second Norman invasion, which failed for lack of support from the English nobility partly because of the Charter.
The Charter was then ignored by Henry and his successors until John, when Archbishop Stephen Langton, who was quarreling with the king, reminded the English nobles of the Charter, which gathered their men to force John to sign an undated version, the Magna Charter. This one had teeth because when John immediately reneged, civil war broke out.
I love how the story of human rights involves a lot of very rich and powerful people arguing about their share of the pie being even bigger. It's incredible how much something like that can morph over centuries.
Interesting post there Andrew. I think that there should NOT be ONE way of doing things. If people learned anything, it should be that there are more ways than one to achieve goals. If you take the crime rate in areas where government is handled differently, you'll see that it is different than here in the U.S.A. Why? Maybe because they don't constantly bash one another on TV. to get the vote they want, they give everyone the right to save up, etc. to pay for their freedom and their people do not have to worry about medical treatment or if they will be left to die without it. That may cause frustration in people and may make living harder. Just an idea. Maybe government in many places should be handled differently because THAT would lower crime rates and save parents from losing their kids, etc. There's also the fact that I absolutely think people who can handle it, etc. or want to SHOULD have the right to a voice. People SHOULD have the right to speak up for what they believe! I DO believe that! I also believe 100% that in some areas the King does not hold Political power over the people anymore. Times have changed. The past is the past and today is today. People need to realise that and let go of hate past events created. Some may realise that but trust me not everyone does! Those today are not to blame for the mistakes of the past. King Charles lll as well many in the Royal Family inspire others and often stand to create awareness that helps the people today. This American thinks that is HUGELY commendable.. I'm not saying that because King Charles lll, and the Royal Family are my distant relatives but because it is 100% true. Besides, it's not like I actually know them face to face or ever will have the pleasure of doing so. The FACT is alot of Americans know very little about the Royal Family and only judge what they don't understand. The past is in fact the past. America was made to move on; not to live in the past. I don't know about others in power nor am I going to pretend to but I do know that the Royal Family is completely different from the way they were long ago. The King cannot say I don't like what someone is saying, etc. so OFF WITH THEIR HEAD! The President of the U.S.A. holds more power over the people than the King does. We ran to freedom; only to create a new cage. One where people are judged if they are viewed as different in anyway. Funny...those who held power over us in the past viewed things exactly the same way. Only today it's not someone saying OFF WITH YOUR HEAD, it's people with the skills, etc. attacking those they disagree with technically or in a brainwashing way that will not be seen or noticed by others in power. It's a sly and rather sick form of manipulation and control. It's also PERFECT if the person you disagree with has any sort of health condition because you can use that to make others assume that anything they speak for is in their head. That my friend is not freedom to me; nor it is what our ancestors came here for. I say Our because I believe that everyone is connected and ancestry is showing that to be true. If people want to find the right way of living it should be found by putting ALL heads together. It shouldn't be found in ONE way because they ARE doing things right to a degree in many areas. If you only wish to find ONE way, you will ALWAYS, ALWAYS fail. You may learn from that failure and really everything is meant to be but I bet anyone who chooses one way and cannot learn from others will fail. Long ago people chose ONE King, etc. ONE way. The Kings of the past were my ancestors and I have to live with that but we can learn from that experience. We can continue to change...we can move forward and we have started to people have the right to vote. Let's continue to move forward! We should all learn from eachother. I believe that's why each of us are here. The question is can Democrats,Republicans, American, British, etc. work together because REALLY we are ALL people. We may disagree on some things but that certainly doesn't mean that we can't learn from one another. Titles aside, we are all a part of eachother and we ALL matter! We should unite as one not fight against one way. We should OPEN our eyes and see the bigger picture to help others. To make a better life for the children of the world. If we can do that, there is more hope for future generations. The question is are we ready for that? I tend to question if some ONLY want the attention that comes from being on TV. and not power to help the PEOPLE. That's most likely why the Royals of the past had to be talked into putting things on TV in the first place. It shouldn't be about being on TV. It should be about helping others. You CAN help more on TV. but one event that comes to mind from the past is Salem. The girls in the Salem Witch trials cried Witch and only due to being caught up in drama did people fall for it. They actually believed lies and hanged people due to it. The way that I see it, the people who believed the lies those girls made were responsible for the deaths of many who were charged. Just as those who believe the lies some Presidents make up today are responsible for the way society treats others due to it. I saw that repeat itself when people followed Trumps words and came to the White House to kill both Democrats and Republicans. I'm sorry dude but that was not in the U.K. People did not harm each-other waving around guns in the U.K. In my eyes...we can learn from eachother because it's a matter of being able to handle that much attention. To my knowledge they simply do not give the option to gain negative attention like that in the U.K. and that is WISE! I simply don't believe that everyone can handle that much attention. Some use it the wrong way, just as some did years ago by ordering people around, etc. I think that we should give power to the people again and that would be by working together. We can only do that by putting aside our pride to see what would be best for the people. We can't do that by teaching everyone to hate those who are different by sending out political ads that teach people to attack whatever may be going wrong in a persons life. That is just like hanging others; only just doing so with emotional torture. That only makes SOME kill themselves to end it. The rest it only tortures and you'd think that technical issues can't torture but I ask you just how many things are online today? That would include getting in contact with Doctors, making appointments, etc. Along with all the things like voting and bank information. Just how many of those things have to do with technology today? Mess with that and you can prevent someone from doing anything those things do. If you're REALLY smart, you'll only mess with technology sometimes. That way some will assume that it's all in your head. That can even make someone question their own sanity! If they do that, they will be less of a threat and maybe give up on being a voice. Still, that is what many ran from years ago. Torture, etc. is simply done in a different way today. If they are handling things differently in other areas, the U.S.A. should look at them and try to learn from them. Just as they should learn from allowing people to have a voice. We should each learn from EACHOTHER! We can only TRULY find the correct answer that way. AS ONE! Remember what was written for America was infact written years ago and during a time when people did not know all of the wonderful things they do today. Some of it may be right but some of it may be wrong and based on what they knew at that time in history. More should be added to help TODAY and not YEARS ago. Years ago is over and done. Today we should learn from all and live as one.
The lesson is no matter what the people want, they have to get it in writing. Empty campaign promises mean nothing.
My big takeaway from this is: always have a constitution. Interestingly enough, Israel operates more or less as a democracy, and they don't have a constitution!
Well said. We had a big protest up here in Ottawa a couple of years ago, calling vaguely for 'no more government mandates'. Meaning anything that prevented them from doing what they wanted. Without any concerns for others and the needs of society. No concept on how this whole being governed thing worked.
The people who shout the loudest that they want less government tend to have the least idea of what less government actually means.
Also, they are the most likely to need more governance, since they can't really be trusted to worry about the impacts they might have on others.