great movie. Remember that cigarette lighter scene in the car?! Anyone who survives High School and the Heathers should get a free pizza and ice cream for a year. Peak Christian Slater. Ever seen True Romance?
HOW DARE YOU POINT OUT MY ERROR?! I could’ve sworn watching it the summer before my senior year. That would’ve been 1989, but it was on video and most movies took at least a year to come out on home video, let alone show up at the video store in my small town but maybe it was a rare exception.
I think that it's like nothing before 1990 for me (minus tiny scattered trauma bits), then intermittent memories from like 91 through 2015, then lots of blacked out spots.
It's the first time I hear about the movie to be honest. As for using humor to poke fun at a "Heather," I think it's typically seen as fair game in comedic circles. Scott Dikkers (founder of The Onion) likes to say that comedy is about "Comforting the afflicted and afflicting the comfortable." You're always supposed to "punch up" and it's bad taste to "punch down." In this equation, it sounds like attacking a Heather is very much a variation of punching up. Then again, shades of grey - some Heathers might be in that situation because they're themselves bullied or otherwise hurt, etc.
Just to be clear, when we say "Heathering", we mean acting like the mean girls in the movie. We're talking about punching down and (even more so) being exclusionary. It's also often specifically about gossip, which tends to be really divisive.
Right, I think we're on the same page. Heathers are acting mean and punching down, so in my book, it's okay for a third party to make fun of a Heather, because that's seen as punching up in contrast. With the caveat that a Heather might have his/her own stuff going on that's worthy of consideration.
Not at all. I was pretty much just agreeing with this statement of yours:
"Making fun of people because they are lesser-than isn’t something I’m interested in, but inverting the equation and using humor as a righteous sword? That’s another matter entirely."
I believe you're right, but in order to watch this, I will miss out on another, better gem. We are swimming in a sea of amazing television and movies today, vastly better than any other time in my own life (at least in my own super personal view).
I don't remember tha movie but I'll look for it. There is comfort in conformity, in continuing the ancient survival trait of the tribe, of us vs them. And then is goes too far . . .
I was a 60/70’s girl and had a crush on Christian Slater. The movie Julian Po was shot in my hometown in upstate NY but I never did get a glimpse of him. :-(
Just my two cents, but I kind of lump ol' JD in with other cool, edgy characters like Tyler Durden, Scarface, or even some iterations of the Joker. Fantastic well written characters, excellent performances, highly charismatic, confident, good looking, largely successful in their endeavors, intelligent, clever, in many ways admirably independent and self-determined... but also insane haha. Dangerously, self-destructively insane, largely as a result of pushing their potentially worthwhile traits and ideas to wholly unhealthy extremes. Like you say, JD had some valid grievances and observations, but his "remedies" become pathological and unhinged, slides from rebellion into revenge. I think a lot of us can get a little carried away at times, ruining our own good intentions, maybe that's why we "relate" to or even sympathize with some of these characters, even though--because it's a film--when they get carried away the results can be hyperbolically horrible.
I always kind of chuckle when people idolize these characters. It is almost like these people watch the first 90% of films and then check out, assuming that things just end swimmingly for our "heroes."
Well, they don't haha. They usually end in catastrophe.
Even the films they appear in make it very clear that, though the extreme action of these characters may even be understandable given past traumas and predilections and viewed through their distorted lens, they are not to be condoned or emulated.
Sometimes I think people have hard time understanding that there is a difference between appreciating a character (e.g., thinking they are interesting, effective, well written/acted etc...) and actually supporting their actions, agreeing with their ethics and world view. But charisma is a real thing. And many people prefer a villain to a victim. Heck forget cinema, look at how many groupies serial killers have in real life! Crazy! Maybe some some people just want to watch the world burn, Master Wayne.
But I digress :D It's a huge topic. Circling back to Heathers, the film actually made an appearance in a recent article I wrote extolling the virtues of 80s cinema. I'll drop a link in case you fancy giving it a read. Either way, keep up the great work!
Heathers is one of the greats, but I'd take a more cynical approach to the film perhaps. In Heathers, high school serves as a proxy for the world in general, and most people do not grow out of their petty, high school motivations. That's actually what makes the film so great : it's a little darker than what we typically see stateside, but that darkness is hidden beneath this mask of humor.
I think the film is very, very dark, and the humor doesn't really hide this darkness at all... but maybe all this stuff was already on my radar by the time I saw the movie. I was certainly ready for Heathers by the time I saw it!
great movie. Remember that cigarette lighter scene in the car?! Anyone who survives High School and the Heathers should get a free pizza and ice cream for a year. Peak Christian Slater. Ever seen True Romance?
Oh yeah! I love True Romance (or loved it back then, anyway). That's probably one of Gary Oldman's best roles, too.
I still love it. What's that called arrested development?! I also still have a cigarette lighter in my car so...
Heathers is what Mean Girls should have been but maliciousness was replaced with pettiness and we never left that type of trope.
Truth be told, I enjoyed Mean Girls too.
Umm.. Imma gonna go ahead and be that guy. Ummm… ACTUALLY Heathers is from 1988, not 1989. 🤣
You mean it was filmed in 88, right?
HOW DARE YOU POINT OUT MY ERROR?! I could’ve sworn watching it the summer before my senior year. That would’ve been 1989, but it was on video and most movies took at least a year to come out on home video, let alone show up at the video store in my small town but maybe it was a rare exception.
You can remember 1989?!?
Yes, but not 1994-2008.
I think that it's like nothing before 1990 for me (minus tiny scattered trauma bits), then intermittent memories from like 91 through 2015, then lots of blacked out spots.
It's the first time I hear about the movie to be honest. As for using humor to poke fun at a "Heather," I think it's typically seen as fair game in comedic circles. Scott Dikkers (founder of The Onion) likes to say that comedy is about "Comforting the afflicted and afflicting the comfortable." You're always supposed to "punch up" and it's bad taste to "punch down." In this equation, it sounds like attacking a Heather is very much a variation of punching up. Then again, shades of grey - some Heathers might be in that situation because they're themselves bullied or otherwise hurt, etc.
Just to be clear, when we say "Heathering", we mean acting like the mean girls in the movie. We're talking about punching down and (even more so) being exclusionary. It's also often specifically about gossip, which tends to be really divisive.
Right, I think we're on the same page. Heathers are acting mean and punching down, so in my book, it's okay for a third party to make fun of a Heather, because that's seen as punching up in contrast. With the caveat that a Heather might have his/her own stuff going on that's worthy of consideration.
Did someone say it wasn't okay to make fun of a Heather? I didn't mean to say that, but sometimes things sneak in there without my most of me knowing.
Not at all. I was pretty much just agreeing with this statement of yours:
"Making fun of people because they are lesser-than isn’t something I’m interested in, but inverting the equation and using humor as a righteous sword? That’s another matter entirely."
Your post reminded me one of my favorite movies: Lasse Hallström’s semi-autobiographical “My Life as a Dog” 1985.
I've never seen it and it sounds intriguing, but it's one of those films I probably won't go back and watch nowadays.
You’d be missing a true gem: https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/my_life_as_a_dog
I believe you're right, but in order to watch this, I will miss out on another, better gem. We are swimming in a sea of amazing television and movies today, vastly better than any other time in my own life (at least in my own super personal view).
I will agree to a hard disagree with your POV on Lasse Hallström’s (his opinion) best work.
I don't remember tha movie but I'll look for it. There is comfort in conformity, in continuing the ancient survival trait of the tribe, of us vs them. And then is goes too far . . .
This is exactly that classic tale, Mike. Let me know what you think if you end up giving it a go!
I was a 60/70’s girl and had a crush on Christian Slater. The movie Julian Po was shot in my hometown in upstate NY but I never did get a glimpse of him. :-(
I grew up 100% straight and I'm pretty sure I had a crush on Christian Slater.
Great film and great article!
Just my two cents, but I kind of lump ol' JD in with other cool, edgy characters like Tyler Durden, Scarface, or even some iterations of the Joker. Fantastic well written characters, excellent performances, highly charismatic, confident, good looking, largely successful in their endeavors, intelligent, clever, in many ways admirably independent and self-determined... but also insane haha. Dangerously, self-destructively insane, largely as a result of pushing their potentially worthwhile traits and ideas to wholly unhealthy extremes. Like you say, JD had some valid grievances and observations, but his "remedies" become pathological and unhinged, slides from rebellion into revenge. I think a lot of us can get a little carried away at times, ruining our own good intentions, maybe that's why we "relate" to or even sympathize with some of these characters, even though--because it's a film--when they get carried away the results can be hyperbolically horrible.
I always kind of chuckle when people idolize these characters. It is almost like these people watch the first 90% of films and then check out, assuming that things just end swimmingly for our "heroes."
Well, they don't haha. They usually end in catastrophe.
Even the films they appear in make it very clear that, though the extreme action of these characters may even be understandable given past traumas and predilections and viewed through their distorted lens, they are not to be condoned or emulated.
Sometimes I think people have hard time understanding that there is a difference between appreciating a character (e.g., thinking they are interesting, effective, well written/acted etc...) and actually supporting their actions, agreeing with their ethics and world view. But charisma is a real thing. And many people prefer a villain to a victim. Heck forget cinema, look at how many groupies serial killers have in real life! Crazy! Maybe some some people just want to watch the world burn, Master Wayne.
But I digress :D It's a huge topic. Circling back to Heathers, the film actually made an appearance in a recent article I wrote extolling the virtues of 80s cinema. I'll drop a link in case you fancy giving it a read. Either way, keep up the great work!
https://honestlyre.substack.com/p/the-80s-did-it-the-80s-did-it
I love my dead, gay son!
One of the greatest scenes of all time! haha
When you pee because you laugh so hard, but it also says something about society... not too shabby.
Heathers is one of the greats, but I'd take a more cynical approach to the film perhaps. In Heathers, high school serves as a proxy for the world in general, and most people do not grow out of their petty, high school motivations. That's actually what makes the film so great : it's a little darker than what we typically see stateside, but that darkness is hidden beneath this mask of humor.
I think the film is very, very dark, and the humor doesn't really hide this darkness at all... but maybe all this stuff was already on my radar by the time I saw the movie. I was certainly ready for Heathers by the time I saw it!
Wow, I was just talking to a bunch of Gen X old pals last night about how weird and great Heathers was! Def need to watch it again
It's a classic, and it has kind of stayed under the radar somehow!
Don't make me think about then Andrew! My rebellion was fueled by sexism, racism, and religious hypocrisy...and it's still happening!
We got some of the things we wanted, but the fight is still going on.
I forgot about Pump Up the Volume! Classic.