Please go for it - that needs to be written. I ran out of steam today (but also, don't really want to make these any longer).
Also: I am still on board w/a more comprehensive piece on emergence! There's plenty going on here right now (I think we are in a similar spot), but I didn't want to drop the thread entirely.
My internal dialog almost killed me-- literally! I wanted it to STOP. I still have a very intense dialog, but I have learned to manage it so far (with some meds). It's a gift and a curse.
That's really interesting! Do you mind sharing a little bit more? Was it some form of schizophrenia? I'm just now getting into that stuff, and I'm very curious. First hand stuff is really cool to hear.
It was 2001 and I started having panic attacks. It was my first year after grad school and first year at a scientific position. I think part was "imposter syndrome," not feeling worthy. It took time, but I soon realized that nobody really knows what's going on, mastering a small corner of a research topic. I was diagnosed with agoraphobia, depression (MDD) and anxiety. I still struggle even after retiring. Maybe MS has something to do with it, since my neurologist said I probably had the disease long before I realized it. Being an extreme introvert, I know of no time I didn't have an inner dialog. It's a double-edged sword as usual with all "technology."
Excellent point. It was after, and I even said at the time we do not know how to process such an impactful event. A lot was happening in my life at the turn of the century.
Exactly right - descriptions are super important to me. I memorize descriptions or little stories about what things look like. I don’t have an image, I have a collection of words. Until I was about 40 I thought that was what everyone did. This was a jarring revelation.
It was jarring for those of us who are on the other side, too! I wonder how many times we've thought we knew not so much WHAT the other person was thinking, but HOW, and been dead wrong.
Sometimes I think it would be nice not to have internal dialogue, I have AuADHD so my thoughts can be a frenetic and very contradictory at times. But then maybe it would be lonely with no one in your head? Idk, it’s so interesting to think about, though.
I tend to get along with my dialogue most of the time, but I also wonder about radio silence and whether that would be a good thing. Ultimately, I don't think so mainly because the cognitive offloading that dialogues seems to offer is worth the trade-off.
I too am antaphasic - I do not have pictures in my head. I can "see" something for a split second and then it disintegrates into thought only. For most of my life, I didn't get that other people actually do (I'm told) see things in their heads. I was always mystified by things like visualization -- how did that work, exactly.
This is why I skip physical descriptions when reading and why I rarely describe what something looks like in my own writing -- physical descriptions are meaningless to me, so I don't get why they would matter to anyone else.
Sound on the other hand -- I can close my eyes and hear every note of Sgt. Pepper, as if it was playing on the turntable.
Interesting, and this makes me wonder what different types of aphantasia there might be. I think Brian can't see the apple, but descriptions are meaningful. Brains are fascinating, especially when we begin to realize we're not necessarily all watching the same movie!
right? are you familiar with the research into color relative to ancient Greek literature? That the Greeks seem to have no word for "blue" -- which leads to the possibility that they didn't perceive blue.
Authors have these conversations constantly in their heads- my characters are constantly yammering about me not writing about them because I spend too much time here!
If you want to explore this depiction best in the mass media, Eugene O'Neill's play "Strange Interlude" involve numerous dramatizations of his characters' inner voices besides the characters themselves.
I take it you like to torment yourself with internal dialogue, just as I do. It's like a sport or something, right? How much can I make that other asshole suffer? Muaa haa haa!
If you had to make a list, what would be at the top for "most surprising" in this category? Very curious, as you've had a lot of time for this non-scientific study!
JFran is supremely logical and practical and immediately spots the flaws in a plan or optimizes logistics I don’t even consider. But I think her brain is much noisier than mine and I think that can be hard to manage
I've been planning to write a deeper investigation on this. The big question, if they just use the 'gut brain' are they really 'thinking?'
Please go for it - that needs to be written. I ran out of steam today (but also, don't really want to make these any longer).
Also: I am still on board w/a more comprehensive piece on emergence! There's plenty going on here right now (I think we are in a similar spot), but I didn't want to drop the thread entirely.
I just learned of this recently and it is almost unfathomable to me that there are people with no internal dialogue. I can’t turn mine off!!
right? same here. I just figured that was the norm. hmm.....
Saw you were a Beatles writer Faith, very cool! I have just recently been getting into them a bit. Even wrote a bit about them a few weeks ago:
https://open.substack.com/pub/hennyhiemenz/p/empty-calories-and-male-curiosity-d0d?r=24w1jq&utm_medium=ios
My internal dialog almost killed me-- literally! I wanted it to STOP. I still have a very intense dialog, but I have learned to manage it so far (with some meds). It's a gift and a curse.
That's really interesting! Do you mind sharing a little bit more? Was it some form of schizophrenia? I'm just now getting into that stuff, and I'm very curious. First hand stuff is really cool to hear.
It was 2001 and I started having panic attacks. It was my first year after grad school and first year at a scientific position. I think part was "imposter syndrome," not feeling worthy. It took time, but I soon realized that nobody really knows what's going on, mastering a small corner of a research topic. I was diagnosed with agoraphobia, depression (MDD) and anxiety. I still struggle even after retiring. Maybe MS has something to do with it, since my neurologist said I probably had the disease long before I realized it. Being an extreme introvert, I know of no time I didn't have an inner dialog. It's a double-edged sword as usual with all "technology."
Weird (but maybe not all that weird) question: did the anxiety begin before or after 9/11?
Excellent point. It was after, and I even said at the time we do not know how to process such an impactful event. A lot was happening in my life at the turn of the century.
Mine too! My partner can't fly now, although she literally grew up while traveling internationally. It all happened after 2001 for her.
I think it affected us deeply, since we had never really been attacked on our own soil in such a devastating way before.
Exactly right - descriptions are super important to me. I memorize descriptions or little stories about what things look like. I don’t have an image, I have a collection of words. Until I was about 40 I thought that was what everyone did. This was a jarring revelation.
It was jarring for those of us who are on the other side, too! I wonder how many times we've thought we knew not so much WHAT the other person was thinking, but HOW, and been dead wrong.
Sometimes I think it would be nice not to have internal dialogue, I have AuADHD so my thoughts can be a frenetic and very contradictory at times. But then maybe it would be lonely with no one in your head? Idk, it’s so interesting to think about, though.
I tend to get along with my dialogue most of the time, but I also wonder about radio silence and whether that would be a good thing. Ultimately, I don't think so mainly because the cognitive offloading that dialogues seems to offer is worth the trade-off.
I too am antaphasic - I do not have pictures in my head. I can "see" something for a split second and then it disintegrates into thought only. For most of my life, I didn't get that other people actually do (I'm told) see things in their heads. I was always mystified by things like visualization -- how did that work, exactly.
This is why I skip physical descriptions when reading and why I rarely describe what something looks like in my own writing -- physical descriptions are meaningless to me, so I don't get why they would matter to anyone else.
Sound on the other hand -- I can close my eyes and hear every note of Sgt. Pepper, as if it was playing on the turntable.
I think I'd rather have that, given the choice.
Interesting, and this makes me wonder what different types of aphantasia there might be. I think Brian can't see the apple, but descriptions are meaningful. Brains are fascinating, especially when we begin to realize we're not necessarily all watching the same movie!
right? are you familiar with the research into color relative to ancient Greek literature? That the Greeks seem to have no word for "blue" -- which leads to the possibility that they didn't perceive blue.
Yes! Really neat. Perception somehow leads to cognition, and we don't even perceive things the same way.
Authors have these conversations constantly in their heads- my characters are constantly yammering about me not writing about them because I spend too much time here!
If you want to explore this depiction best in the mass media, Eugene O'Neill's play "Strange Interlude" involve numerous dramatizations of his characters' inner voices besides the characters themselves.
Same premise as the Clark Gable/Norma Shearer golden age film?
It's the source of the film.
This was very informative.
-No it wasn't, why would you tell him that?
I wasn't talking to you. I was commenting.
-Maybe if you commented less and paid more attention to me, you'd finally learn something.
Oh shut up already.
-You shut up!
I take it you like to torment yourself with internal dialogue, just as I do. It's like a sport or something, right? How much can I make that other asshole suffer? Muaa haa haa!
Having lived with JFran for 35 years I can confirm indubitably that people think very differently
If you had to make a list, what would be at the top for "most surprising" in this category? Very curious, as you've had a lot of time for this non-scientific study!
JFran is supremely logical and practical and immediately spots the flaws in a plan or optimizes logistics I don’t even consider. But I think her brain is much noisier than mine and I think that can be hard to manage
Sounds like she has a LOT going on up there!
TRUTH