Perhaps, but I also wanted to bring up the tantalizing possibility that AI might be able to help solve mysteries like this... then I realized the thing was already pretty long. It was a game-time decision.
Glad you wrote about this, love this topic! I don't know enough about AI to understand what role it machine learning could play in deciphering Linear A, although it seems there has been some progress using it to do so with the Harrapan/Indus Valley writing system. It does seem like we'll need some sort of Rosetta stone, but considering they had such close connections with other cultures in the area, something in Linear A/Linear b or Linear A/Egyptian or whatever could be unearthed at some point? But who knows? What's really intriguing is the role that the perrenial Indo European debate could play in this-scholars at this point think Linear A is not IE, while Linear B def was, but there is a lot of debate currently over whether the earliest split in PIE could have happened much deeper in the past in Anatolia than previously thought, making it possible that a very early form of PIE could have been spoken on Crete that lacked a lot of the distinguishable features that later Greek and IE languages had. I personally think it's more likely that the Minoans spoke a language distantly related to the Semitic family but I am no expert so that's just a hunch.
Well... on the Semitic language front, the math does check out somewhat. The Greeks borrowed their ultimate alphabet from the Phoenicians, and I suspect there was a very long tradition of Crete (and many other Greek islands) being considered as much of an extension of the lands of the Levant as of the Balkans. I think you're onto something, but I also think time will have to tell us a lot of this. I'm not turning away any time soon!
Yeah, I think that makes sense. The challenge is proving that Semitic or Proto-Afro Asiatic was spoken there long before Phoenician or any of the later languages in that family emerged. I think, given that PAA was spoken in Egypt, Northern Africa and the Levant it stands to reason that the farming expansion into Europe brought some version of that language to the Aegean that was later replaced by Indo European languages but I’ve seen some compelling arguments in favor of the farmers speaking very early PIE as well. There’s even a compelling argument that Basque could have been indo European although it’s pretty controversial. Fascinating stuff! Need a dang Time Machine tho:)
I hadn't heard that about Basque, just that it's super duper old due to isolation, and unrelated to any other language... but I would not be surprised to hear that view evolving. We are often stunned by discoveries that imply that two groups were actually in contact for centuries before we had previously assumed (I'm thinking of China and Rome here, but there have been dozens of other cases like this).
You might really enjoy Mir Quadri's work - he and I have worked together on a few pieces, at least one of which is about language. He and I share a love for etymology, and you fit right into this weird obsession.
Yeah I actually heard about the Basque theory on a video discussion of linguists, it was a paper that didn’t get much attention. I love linguistics but I don’t have a rigorous enough understanding of the granular details of the arguments, particularly with isolated languages like Basque, to feel like I can make any kind of judgement call on controversies like that! But I’m gonna keep learning. I’ll check out the recommendation-is that someone on Substack?
Same here RE not really being as "in the weeds" as I am on other topics. I think linguistics is fascinating, though, and I'm sure by the time I'm like 90 I'll know plenty.
Food for thought: If we got ChatGPT to successfully figure out and translate Linear A, would it forever become known as "Linear AI"?
I'll leave you to have your "Mind Blown" moment now.
Perhaps, but I also wanted to bring up the tantalizing possibility that AI might be able to help solve mysteries like this... then I realized the thing was already pretty long. It was a game-time decision.
Trust AI-Daniel to jump in with the inevitable follow-up.
Glad you wrote about this, love this topic! I don't know enough about AI to understand what role it machine learning could play in deciphering Linear A, although it seems there has been some progress using it to do so with the Harrapan/Indus Valley writing system. It does seem like we'll need some sort of Rosetta stone, but considering they had such close connections with other cultures in the area, something in Linear A/Linear b or Linear A/Egyptian or whatever could be unearthed at some point? But who knows? What's really intriguing is the role that the perrenial Indo European debate could play in this-scholars at this point think Linear A is not IE, while Linear B def was, but there is a lot of debate currently over whether the earliest split in PIE could have happened much deeper in the past in Anatolia than previously thought, making it possible that a very early form of PIE could have been spoken on Crete that lacked a lot of the distinguishable features that later Greek and IE languages had. I personally think it's more likely that the Minoans spoke a language distantly related to the Semitic family but I am no expert so that's just a hunch.
Well... on the Semitic language front, the math does check out somewhat. The Greeks borrowed their ultimate alphabet from the Phoenicians, and I suspect there was a very long tradition of Crete (and many other Greek islands) being considered as much of an extension of the lands of the Levant as of the Balkans. I think you're onto something, but I also think time will have to tell us a lot of this. I'm not turning away any time soon!
Yeah, I think that makes sense. The challenge is proving that Semitic or Proto-Afro Asiatic was spoken there long before Phoenician or any of the later languages in that family emerged. I think, given that PAA was spoken in Egypt, Northern Africa and the Levant it stands to reason that the farming expansion into Europe brought some version of that language to the Aegean that was later replaced by Indo European languages but I’ve seen some compelling arguments in favor of the farmers speaking very early PIE as well. There’s even a compelling argument that Basque could have been indo European although it’s pretty controversial. Fascinating stuff! Need a dang Time Machine tho:)
I hadn't heard that about Basque, just that it's super duper old due to isolation, and unrelated to any other language... but I would not be surprised to hear that view evolving. We are often stunned by discoveries that imply that two groups were actually in contact for centuries before we had previously assumed (I'm thinking of China and Rome here, but there have been dozens of other cases like this).
You might really enjoy Mir Quadri's work - he and I have worked together on a few pieces, at least one of which is about language. He and I share a love for etymology, and you fit right into this weird obsession.
Yeah I actually heard about the Basque theory on a video discussion of linguists, it was a paper that didn’t get much attention. I love linguistics but I don’t have a rigorous enough understanding of the granular details of the arguments, particularly with isolated languages like Basque, to feel like I can make any kind of judgement call on controversies like that! But I’m gonna keep learning. I’ll check out the recommendation-is that someone on Substack?
Same here RE not really being as "in the weeds" as I am on other topics. I think linguistics is fascinating, though, and I'm sure by the time I'm like 90 I'll know plenty.
Indeed, Mir is here on Substack. Here's a recent piece we worked on together a bit: https://goatfury.substack.com/p/gold-records