Excellent callout. For readers unfamiliar with von Neumann, he was the basis for Dr Strangelove - instrumental in building the bomb, and beyond that, instrumental in Cold War game theory. Lots of really bad associations today for von Neumann on this basis.
Yeah, I'm way more interested in what the results are myself.
I love that the Game of Life will ultimately create stuff like guns that shoot out bullets, stuff like that.. but I'm not about to sit here for like 48 hours straight waiting for that to happen! Y'all just tell me when that comes to fruition.
Back in Ukraine, when I got my very frist real-time strategy game, Dune II, two of my friends would often come over and we'd play for hours. I'd mostly be the one playing, but they enjoyed watching the game evolve and also kept an eye on the "minimap" to tell me if the enemy was coming, etc. Looking back on it, I feel kind bad for letting them just watch while I played.
And on a somewhat related note, I assume you've seen this fascinating old "Hide And Seek" video from OpenAI where neural network teams gradually evolve to learn new strategies on their own after countless iterations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kopoLzvh5jY
I hadn't seen that video yet! Thanks for sharing it here.
It's really neat to think about these agents (in the video) all just following ultra-simple rules at their core. It makes me think about binary, and how you can do anything you want with a language with just two elements (states, in von Neumann's framework).
I'm pretty sure Alley also played the crap out of Dune (although I'm not sure if it was II, it was definitely this type of game). I played Warcraft II and Civ II along similar lines, and both helped me to develop the way I understood the world. Things like resource allocation weren't new, exactly, but they became the main focus in those games, then layered in delightful complexity so you had to think about multiple dimensions all at once.
The "AI" back then was actually really good, although it was totally rules-based.
Oh yeah, I enjoyed both of those too, as well as the sci-fi successor Starcraft (perhaps even more so as I prefer futuristic settings to medieval ones). Generally I was always a huge turn-based tactics/strategy fan - Fallout 2, X-COM, that type of thing.
I think that if I had been exposed to these turn-based RPGs sooner, I would have been all in on Starcraft. As it happened, I think that was right when things got very busy for me all at once. It feels like these games are wonderful for the sort of complexity you need to understand the world, at least beyond the most base level.
Oh Starcraft is still real-time strategy, very much like Warcraft.
But speaking of sci-fi successors, have you ever tried Alpha Centauri? It's a spiritual successor to Civilization games, set in future space colonies, by the same designer (Sid Meier). Was very fun at the time. Instead of developing and upgrading entire units, you researched and developed modules that you could combine to build your own, with thousands and thousands of possible combinations. It looks outdated by modern standards, but was awesome at the time!
That's great! Meier was really ahead of his time, a bit like von Neumann in that regard. I can go back TODAY and play Civ II and enjoy it. That's kind of mind-blowing when you think about it, but it's just that the rules-based game play was so well thought out. Better technology (up until very recently, anyway) couldn't improve the thinking architecture, so it didn't really matter if the game was made 30 years ago or yesterday.
Civ was turn-based instead of real-time like Warcraft, but the strategy and resource allocation stuff was omnipresent in both games. I loved them.
When I started a two year school for electronics, there was a space invaders arcade game in the break room. I would see classmates drop quarter after quarter. I was too frugal to be enticed. Never got into video games though now I will watch the grandchildren practice repeated attempts to beat a boss and advance. Way too fast for me. Their hand eye coordination is amazing. The jerkiness of the video can cause me motion sickness so still doesn’t appeal to me.
Talked with my son-in-law who is a gamer and taking my description of the players action and screen, he showed me ‘missle command’ which I think was the game I saw at school.
Missile Command was awesome! I used to love that and other games that were geometry-based. I never felt this way, but they kind of tricked you into doing math.
Dale, I felt like I got motion sickness when I tried VR goggles! I hope I can get past that because I want to explore this new world people are building (I'm in no rush though; they can like build it first).
I've never played it but I have watched someone solo it. Yes, really. It was hilarious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WVjal-gVZ4 (I will always take the excuse to share Call Me Kevin. XD He's one of my favorite let's players.)
Ah! I am talking about a VERY different Game of Life. I'm talking about Conway's invention, definitely one of those ZPGs, but really profound. It's based on cellular automata and ultra-simple rules - very neat!
Watching someone play Life against oneself was not on my bingo card for today.
double irony, the computers created the games for the NPCs in the first place so unfair - it's their home turf. I bet they wouldn't win on our native home turf like Lumberjacks throwing axes
From Wargames with Matthew Broderick: “Is there a way to make the computer play itself? … Yes, number of players zero.”
Excellent callout. For readers unfamiliar with von Neumann, he was the basis for Dr Strangelove - instrumental in building the bomb, and beyond that, instrumental in Cold War game theory. Lots of really bad associations today for von Neumann on this basis.
This sounds a whole lot like AFKwarrior apps on the phone.
No thanks, not interested. I'd rather play the game than watch it.
Yeah, I'm way more interested in what the results are myself.
I love that the Game of Life will ultimately create stuff like guns that shoot out bullets, stuff like that.. but I'm not about to sit here for like 48 hours straight waiting for that to happen! Y'all just tell me when that comes to fruition.
Back in Ukraine, when I got my very frist real-time strategy game, Dune II, two of my friends would often come over and we'd play for hours. I'd mostly be the one playing, but they enjoyed watching the game evolve and also kept an eye on the "minimap" to tell me if the enemy was coming, etc. Looking back on it, I feel kind bad for letting them just watch while I played.
And on a somewhat related note, I assume you've seen this fascinating old "Hide And Seek" video from OpenAI where neural network teams gradually evolve to learn new strategies on their own after countless iterations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kopoLzvh5jY
That stuff's mesmerizing to watch.
I hadn't seen that video yet! Thanks for sharing it here.
It's really neat to think about these agents (in the video) all just following ultra-simple rules at their core. It makes me think about binary, and how you can do anything you want with a language with just two elements (states, in von Neumann's framework).
I'm pretty sure Alley also played the crap out of Dune (although I'm not sure if it was II, it was definitely this type of game). I played Warcraft II and Civ II along similar lines, and both helped me to develop the way I understood the world. Things like resource allocation weren't new, exactly, but they became the main focus in those games, then layered in delightful complexity so you had to think about multiple dimensions all at once.
The "AI" back then was actually really good, although it was totally rules-based.
Oh yeah, I enjoyed both of those too, as well as the sci-fi successor Starcraft (perhaps even more so as I prefer futuristic settings to medieval ones). Generally I was always a huge turn-based tactics/strategy fan - Fallout 2, X-COM, that type of thing.
I think that if I had been exposed to these turn-based RPGs sooner, I would have been all in on Starcraft. As it happened, I think that was right when things got very busy for me all at once. It feels like these games are wonderful for the sort of complexity you need to understand the world, at least beyond the most base level.
Oh Starcraft is still real-time strategy, very much like Warcraft.
But speaking of sci-fi successors, have you ever tried Alpha Centauri? It's a spiritual successor to Civilization games, set in future space colonies, by the same designer (Sid Meier). Was very fun at the time. Instead of developing and upgrading entire units, you researched and developed modules that you could combine to build your own, with thousands and thousands of possible combinations. It looks outdated by modern standards, but was awesome at the time!
That's great! Meier was really ahead of his time, a bit like von Neumann in that regard. I can go back TODAY and play Civ II and enjoy it. That's kind of mind-blowing when you think about it, but it's just that the rules-based game play was so well thought out. Better technology (up until very recently, anyway) couldn't improve the thinking architecture, so it didn't really matter if the game was made 30 years ago or yesterday.
Civ was turn-based instead of real-time like Warcraft, but the strategy and resource allocation stuff was omnipresent in both games. I loved them.
Is the universe just applying the KISS principle (Keep It Super Simple)? 🤔
I tend to think so. I'm working on something about It from Bit right now. Wish me luck!
When I started a two year school for electronics, there was a space invaders arcade game in the break room. I would see classmates drop quarter after quarter. I was too frugal to be enticed. Never got into video games though now I will watch the grandchildren practice repeated attempts to beat a boss and advance. Way too fast for me. Their hand eye coordination is amazing. The jerkiness of the video can cause me motion sickness so still doesn’t appeal to me.
Talked with my son-in-law who is a gamer and taking my description of the players action and screen, he showed me ‘missle command’ which I think was the game I saw at school.
Missile Command was awesome! I used to love that and other games that were geometry-based. I never felt this way, but they kind of tricked you into doing math.
Dale, I felt like I got motion sickness when I tried VR goggles! I hope I can get past that because I want to explore this new world people are building (I'm in no rush though; they can like build it first).
Same old story. The most complex is, at the same time, the simplest.
"Ever watch someone else play a video game?"
My entire Youtube history. LOL (Also, I am watching a let's play as I read this.)
That's wild! What do you make of The Game of Life?
I've never played it but I have watched someone solo it. Yes, really. It was hilarious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WVjal-gVZ4 (I will always take the excuse to share Call Me Kevin. XD He's one of my favorite let's players.)
Ah! I am talking about a VERY different Game of Life. I'm talking about Conway's invention, definitely one of those ZPGs, but really profound. It's based on cellular automata and ultra-simple rules - very neat!
Watching someone play Life against oneself was not on my bingo card for today.
We have expanded each other's horizons! Lol
That's why I'm here! That, and the dog pics.
In a bit of gaming irony, calling someone an NPC (AI) is an insult
Irony indeed, since the NPCs are now better at the games than any humans!
double irony, the computers created the games for the NPCs in the first place so unfair - it's their home turf. I bet they wouldn't win on our native home turf like Lumberjacks throwing axes
triple irony and full circle: humans created the computers! We're back where we started, but we are also at the end. We are ouroboros.
did you ever play Snake on your fancy new Nokia phone? foreshadowing!
Oddly, no! My first cell phone was in 2003. It was indeed a Nokia, though!