There are other meanings of feedback as well. One well-known one is the solicitation of opinions by individuals and organizations which may or may not influence their work. Slightly less known is the ear-annoying yelps and screeches that can come out of PA systems and amplifiers when rock musicians prepare their electric instruments for concerts.
I believe that latter type is subject to the same phenomena as the TV static one I opened with, but the audio version instead of visual. It's wild how universal these things are when you get down to them.
I know those screeches well, not from working with rock musicians but with business teleconferences. The most awful ear bleeding feedback - I think the official term was ‘howling’
In a punk band, feedback is your friend. We loved to make those sounds that drove the execs crazy. I also get why the fix you alluded to in another thread might have been somewhat slow in coming.
Yes! Very, very long ago, but Repo Man was one of the "classic must see" 80s punk films. Weirdly, I don't think I've ever seen Suburbia, although I'm sure I've seen plenty of clips.
(And no, it's not a review of your writing skills.)
Back during my days at Jabra, I wrote an article about ANC (active noise cancellation) for our blog. ANC can be implemented in different ways, such as "feedforward" (where the ANC mic is outside the headphones and picks up the noise before it enters the headphones themselves) and "feedback," which is when the mic is in the earcup and "hears" what the user hears.
Not anymore, to be honest. I experienced it so many times by now, starting from the old Cracked articles and my humor blog and, more recently, a fan writing to me to send me a link to someone on TikTok who made a slideshow that included some of my Midjourney images and getting a million views.
It's hard to worry about that stuff. But I do wonder how people can be so nonchalant about reusing someone's material without giving them a nod. I personally always link/give credit to the original source, whether it's images or articles, etc.
Jabra is pretty great. Was a great place to work, too. I worked there part-time while finishing my Masters, started working full-time right after graduating, and stayed for 10 years before moving on in 2016.
I feel the same way RE reuse of work, and at both ends, too. It's weird to think about all the things that used to bother me. Maybe I should write about that (even more, I mean).
Audio engineering is some crazy amazing stuff. Cousin to ANC is AEC which is similar but meant to address the echo/feedback David references above. Simplest example is a speakerphone where the mic and speaker are side-by-side so feedback is inevitable. But the case that dogged us forever more was room systems. You’re in a fancy dancy teleconference room engineered for amazing audio and video and costing 100grand and someone opens up their laptop and joins - queue the most awful howling until laptop user mutes. It was a dance at the beginning of every meeting and what was most entertaining were the infuriated execs - who were the main participants in these meetings - yelling about why their ears were bleeding. We fixed it eventually but it took entirely too much, err exec feedback before it was prioritized by the audio team
Aaaah yes, the classic "Kid testing their new toy karaoke mic right next to the speaker and making everyone's ears explode" situation. Uh, hypothetically. Not speaking from personal experience or anything.
In a manner of speaking... yes! You know how we only see one side of the Moon, ever? That's due to spontaneous sync via gravity. It's the coolest thing ever, and I wrote a tiny bit about it here:
I have been a student of feedback systems since discovering Weiner's Cybernetics (also my Master's degree topic-- genetic algorithms). I also studied operational amplifiers as feedback modifiers in my Electronics AS degree. Positive feedback in microphones and speakers always intrigued me.
1948, Cybernetics: Or Control and Communication in the Animal and the Machine. Paris, (Hermann & Cie) & Camb. Mass. (MIT Press) ISBN 978-0-262-73009-9; 2nd revised ed. 1961.
I think you may have skipped the original meaning of the term: an audio system in which the speaker's output is picked up by the microphone, and an ear-splitting squeal results.
Or maybe not the original. Early AM radios had a feedback mechanism in which the output from a certain vacuum tube was fed back to an earlier stage of amplification to modify its gain. So that weak signals got more amplification than strong signals from nearby stations.
I’m reading this book called Snow Crash which, similar to your opening, characterizes a software crash where the screen freezes with snow. Corporate feedback has run amuck and is openly used in corporate review systems often as euphemism for ‘you suck’. Bank of America used to call their annual review process ‘360 Feedback’ where you had to write up how all your peers annoyed you. Made for a nicely combative work environment
That book called Snow Crash is one of my favorites ever! Here's something that touches on both Snow Crash and The Diamond Age, two truly incredible hard sci-fi novels:
Fab feedback tidbit: "I Feel Fine" was the first-known use of electronic feedback as a musical element, in the opening of the song. There's a fun outtake of them trying to get it "good" for the BBC here--
Little to none, I suspect. George Martin did have genius ears, but that sort of thing wasn't his style. George Martin's contributions were essential to the overall sound, but they tended more towards his suggestions for formal arrangement in the midst of what L/M were doing. Like the string quartet for Yesterday, for example, or the suggestion of a suite for the B-side of Abbey Road (Martin suggested the whole album be one continuous piece of music). Martin's formal musical training wouldn't have lent itself to that, and by accounts of those who were there, didn't.
The embrace of the artistic accident was a darling of John and Paul and had come largely out of their involvement with the counterculture and their instinct not to repeat themselves and to push for new sounds on every album (up through Pepper). And of course, that's an expression of *their* genius ears.
There are other meanings of feedback as well. One well-known one is the solicitation of opinions by individuals and organizations which may or may not influence their work. Slightly less known is the ear-annoying yelps and screeches that can come out of PA systems and amplifiers when rock musicians prepare their electric instruments for concerts.
I believe that latter type is subject to the same phenomena as the TV static one I opened with, but the audio version instead of visual. It's wild how universal these things are when you get down to them.
I know those screeches well, not from working with rock musicians but with business teleconferences. The most awful ear bleeding feedback - I think the official term was ‘howling’
In a punk band, feedback is your friend. We loved to make those sounds that drove the execs crazy. I also get why the fix you alluded to in another thread might have been somewhat slow in coming.
Ever seen Repo Man? It's queued up for tonite and the main character (a very young Emilio Estevez) is punk
Yes! Very, very long ago, but Repo Man was one of the "classic must see" 80s punk films. Weirdly, I don't think I've ever seen Suburbia, although I'm sure I've seen plenty of clips.
Jimi Hendrix, the pioneer
Love that movie; my kid will prolly mock me
How about The Decline of Western Civilization? Also required punk viewing, but in a very different vein.
I'll check both of those out! We are in a retrospective film festival moment rn. Watched Blue Velvet last night whoa
PABST BLUE RIBBON!
Here's another "feedback" for ya!
(And no, it's not a review of your writing skills.)
Back during my days at Jabra, I wrote an article about ANC (active noise cancellation) for our blog. ANC can be implemented in different ways, such as "feedforward" (where the ANC mic is outside the headphones and picks up the noise before it enters the headphones themselves) and "feedback," which is when the mic is in the earcup and "hears" what the user hears.
It looks like they heavily edited the original article since to include new products, etc. but here's a copy-paste of the article by someone reposting it on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/whats-difference-between-feedforward-anc-feedback-hybrid-joe-lai/
Does it ever bug you to find something you've written with no attribution?
Also: I have Jabra headphones! I use ANC all the time.
Not anymore, to be honest. I experienced it so many times by now, starting from the old Cracked articles and my humor blog and, more recently, a fan writing to me to send me a link to someone on TikTok who made a slideshow that included some of my Midjourney images and getting a million views.
It's hard to worry about that stuff. But I do wonder how people can be so nonchalant about reusing someone's material without giving them a nod. I personally always link/give credit to the original source, whether it's images or articles, etc.
Jabra is pretty great. Was a great place to work, too. I worked there part-time while finishing my Masters, started working full-time right after graduating, and stayed for 10 years before moving on in 2016.
I feel the same way RE reuse of work, and at both ends, too. It's weird to think about all the things that used to bother me. Maybe I should write about that (even more, I mean).
All information should be free.
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/articles/Information_wants_to_be_free
Audio engineering is some crazy amazing stuff. Cousin to ANC is AEC which is similar but meant to address the echo/feedback David references above. Simplest example is a speakerphone where the mic and speaker are side-by-side so feedback is inevitable. But the case that dogged us forever more was room systems. You’re in a fancy dancy teleconference room engineered for amazing audio and video and costing 100grand and someone opens up their laptop and joins - queue the most awful howling until laptop user mutes. It was a dance at the beginning of every meeting and what was most entertaining were the infuriated execs - who were the main participants in these meetings - yelling about why their ears were bleeding. We fixed it eventually but it took entirely too much, err exec feedback before it was prioritized by the audio team
Aaaah yes, the classic "Kid testing their new toy karaoke mic right next to the speaker and making everyone's ears explode" situation. Uh, hypothetically. Not speaking from personal experience or anything.
The last example illustrates a symbiotic relationship with an “other”. Previous example involved a relationship with itself.
I was thinking of the entire planet, not one particular organism. You're talking about the cayanobacteria bit, right?
And might we going to Mars be the “feedback”?
So might Earth have a symbiotic relationship with another planet (e.g.Mars)?
In a manner of speaking... yes! You know how we only see one side of the Moon, ever? That's due to spontaneous sync via gravity. It's the coolest thing ever, and I wrote a tiny bit about it here:
https://goatfury.substack.com/p/the-things-you-already-know
I should follow up on that one.
I have been a student of feedback systems since discovering Weiner's Cybernetics (also my Master's degree topic-- genetic algorithms). I also studied operational amplifiers as feedback modifiers in my Electronics AS degree. Positive feedback in microphones and speakers always intrigued me.
1948, Cybernetics: Or Control and Communication in the Animal and the Machine. Paris, (Hermann & Cie) & Camb. Mass. (MIT Press) ISBN 978-0-262-73009-9; 2nd revised ed. 1961.
Wiener was very sharp. I need to write more about his work. Maybe I can ping you when that time comes.
Feel free to pick my brain for what it's worth. :-)
I think you may have skipped the original meaning of the term: an audio system in which the speaker's output is picked up by the microphone, and an ear-splitting squeal results.
Or maybe not the original. Early AM radios had a feedback mechanism in which the output from a certain vacuum tube was fed back to an earlier stage of amplification to modify its gain. So that weak signals got more amplification than strong signals from nearby stations.
I think I read that the term was coined in the radio industry, but not 100% confident. It was a bit murky.
Everytime I read you, I remember why I went to Substack on the first time. Thanks you so much and bravo 👏👏👏
Thanks so much, Thomas!
I’m reading this book called Snow Crash which, similar to your opening, characterizes a software crash where the screen freezes with snow. Corporate feedback has run amuck and is openly used in corporate review systems often as euphemism for ‘you suck’. Bank of America used to call their annual review process ‘360 Feedback’ where you had to write up how all your peers annoyed you. Made for a nicely combative work environment
That book called Snow Crash is one of my favorites ever! Here's something that touches on both Snow Crash and The Diamond Age, two truly incredible hard sci-fi novels:
https://goatfury.substack.com/p/an-ai-tutor-in-every-childs-hand
You're spot-on about corporate feedback, something I believe Snow Crash touches on quite a bit.
Brillant, yet everything in the Natural World evolution is mind-bending and heart-throbbing excitement for how it all works together. Thank you.
Fab feedback tidbit: "I Feel Fine" was the first-known use of electronic feedback as a musical element, in the opening of the song. There's a fun outtake of them trying to get it "good" for the BBC here--
https://open.spotify.com/track/5yAbOoR9GOsSHywhsP3wrJ?si=35049b9a9edf4334
Let me ask you: how much of that was due to George Martin's kinda genius ears?
Little to none, I suspect. George Martin did have genius ears, but that sort of thing wasn't his style. George Martin's contributions were essential to the overall sound, but they tended more towards his suggestions for formal arrangement in the midst of what L/M were doing. Like the string quartet for Yesterday, for example, or the suggestion of a suite for the B-side of Abbey Road (Martin suggested the whole album be one continuous piece of music). Martin's formal musical training wouldn't have lent itself to that, and by accounts of those who were there, didn't.
The embrace of the artistic accident was a darling of John and Paul and had come largely out of their involvement with the counterculture and their instinct not to repeat themselves and to push for new sounds on every album (up through Pepper). And of course, that's an expression of *their* genius ears.
Virtuous cycle, vicious cycle, doom loop, rivalrous dynamics creating a race to the bottom....
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/articles/Norbert_Wiener#Publications